Comments on: Response: Is Java a Sinking Ship? http://brennan.offwhite.net/blog/2005/05/29/response-is-java-a-sinking-ship/ My Experiences with Software Development Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:36:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Brennan Stehling http://brennan.offwhite.net/blog/2005/05/29/response-is-java-a-sinking-ship/#comment-159 Brennan Stehling Tue, 31 May 2005 14:40:38 +0000 http://brennanwp.offwhite.net/blog/?p=140#comment-159 I do see the Java brain drain due to Ruby on Rails. One great Java developer, Bruce Tate, has moved over to Ruby on Rails and recruited many others from the Java community. He speaks at the No Fluff, Just Stuff symposiums which was just Java a couple of years ago and now it includes .NET and other technologies. As for IBM, they are coming to grips with the new relationship Sun and Microsoft are developing. They realize they will not be able to co-opt Java like they had planned and are now going to head to PHP and work to be leader in that area. And for whatever Sun projects for growth, I cannot speak to that with any amount of optimism. If Java developers become so commonplace then the average salary of a Java developer will be comparable to your average accountant. Sun is also inflating those numbers. With the way software development is evolving it will not be necessary to have all of those developers. The tools are allowing individuals to do more work and get more done. The current need will shrink simply because 1 person in 5 years will be able to do the job of 5 people. I never believe those growth numbers. And for Trails, that may be worth looking into for some people. But essentially I want Sun to choose a web framework and build around it. There were portlets but there seems to be no energy behind it. And I have no idea which web frameworks are compatible with it. In the .NET world it is very clear what you can do with all of the components. And you can make good money producing a few components and selling them. I do see the Java brain drain due to Ruby on Rails. One great Java developer, Bruce Tate, has moved over to Ruby on Rails and recruited many others from the Java community. He speaks at the No Fluff, Just Stuff symposiums which was just Java a couple of years ago and now it includes .NET and other technologies.

As for IBM, they are coming to grips with the new relationship Sun and Microsoft are developing. They realize they will not be able to co-opt Java like they had planned and are now going to head to PHP and work to be leader in that area.

And for whatever Sun projects for growth, I cannot speak to that with any amount of optimism. If Java developers become so commonplace then the average salary of a Java developer will be comparable to your average accountant. Sun is also inflating those numbers. With the way software development is evolving it will not be necessary to have all of those developers. The tools are allowing individuals to do more work and get more done. The current need will shrink simply because 1 person in 5 years will be able to do the job of 5 people. I never believe those growth numbers.

And for Trails, that may be worth looking into for some people. But essentially I want Sun to choose a web framework and build around it. There were portlets but there seems to be no energy behind it. And I have no idea which web frameworks are compatible with it. In the .NET world it is very clear what you can do with all of the components. And you can make good money producing a few components and selling them.

]]> By: Mats Henricson http://brennan.offwhite.net/blog/2005/05/29/response-is-java-a-sinking-ship/#comment-158 Mats Henricson Tue, 31 May 2005 07:03:46 +0000 http://brennanwp.offwhite.net/blog/?p=140#comment-158 Also, there are stuff like Trails going on. Is it draining a lot of brainpower from Ruby on Rails? Also, there are stuff like Trails going on. Is it draining a lot of brainpower from Ruby on Rails?

]]> By: Berlin Brown http://brennan.offwhite.net/blog/2005/05/29/response-is-java-a-sinking-ship/#comment-157 Berlin Brown Mon, 30 May 2005 23:23:15 +0000 http://brennanwp.offwhite.net/blog/?p=140#comment-157 I don't see where you backup any of your arguments. "Ruby on Rails is draining a lot of brain power from the Java community", really? Sun predicts that the Java developer pool will grow from 3 million developers, now to 10 million developers over the next couple of years. "IBM seems to be putting a lot of weight behind PHP" IBM is pretty much a Java consulting firm. They have put out products like Websphere, Eclipse, JikesRVM, Jikes. They may like PHP, but Java is their mainstay. I will agree with the .NET comments, Java is basically competing with .NET, but if you want to develop around Microsoft, that is fine. If you want to develop around something else, you use Java. I don't think the Java community is fragmenting. It is just growing, so you have different technologies being leveraged by different sets of groups. My only problem with the Java Framework Cheerleaders, there seems to be a lot of "My framework is better than yours". If you use Struts, JSF, Spring; Fine. But, I just hate to tell a company, "Struts Sucks", you need to use Spring, now. This is expensive because you have to rewrite your existing software over something that may or may not provide benefits. I don't see where you backup any of your arguments.

"Ruby on Rails is draining a lot of brain power from the Java community", really?

Sun predicts that the Java developer pool will grow from 3 million developers, now to 10 million developers over the next couple of years.

"IBM seems to be putting a lot of weight behind PHP"

IBM is pretty much a Java consulting firm. They have put out products like Websphere, Eclipse, JikesRVM, Jikes. They may like PHP, but Java is their mainstay.

I will agree with the .NET comments, Java is basically competing with .NET, but if you want to develop around Microsoft, that is fine. If you want to develop around something else, you use Java.

I don't think the Java community is fragmenting. It is just growing, so you have different technologies being leveraged by different sets of groups.

My only problem with the Java Framework Cheerleaders, there seems to be a lot of "My framework is better than yours". If you use Struts, JSF, Spring; Fine. But, I just hate to tell a company, "Struts Sucks", you need to use Spring, now. This is expensive because you have to rewrite your existing software over something that may or may not provide benefits.

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